Comments on Bloggers4UKIP: Why not ban the burkha?

anonymous You cover two issues again... 1) Oppre...

2010-01-29T11:16:07.745Z

anonymous

You cover two issues again...

1) Oppression of women
and
2) Cultural Segregation

The answers:

1) Banning a slave owner from chaining his slaves, doesn't make the slaves any more free - they just look it. So instead of banning the burkha ensure muslim women are educated, have self confidence and self respect so they can freely make their own choices (this applies to all british citizens, not just muslim women).

2) What about Stamford Hill ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/15/religion.communities ) they are hardly integrated... Are they 'OK' as long as they don't take up too much of 'our' land? or as long as they stay totally isolated from 'us' (out of sight out of mind)?

FWIW: I think 2 is the *real* issue but people are too scared to be honest (or even think about it) because they are still too cowed by the marxist political correctness witch hunts.

Until people are honest, there will be no real answers.

(Political Correctness is the marxist version of McCarthyism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism )

I would agree with what your saying POP, The only ...

2010-01-29T10:36:51.894Z

I would agree with what your saying POP, The only point id change is what you say about chinese new year. That and other events like it are a festival, lasting a short period of time for celebration.

The Burka is worn permanent, all year round, shopping, commuting, etc. The Burka hasnt been brought across here for celebration, or to mark anniversary events. Its a symbol of segregation, an un-equal imposition on women, and unfortunately, its from a background that has extremists, that are happy to hide behind it while expressing their hatred for this country!

anonymous - it is not one issue there are two issu...

2010-01-29T10:04:06.659Z

anonymous - it is not one issue there are two issues:

1) Security

If it is *necessary* for someone to be identified then clearly they need to be detained until their identity is established.

2) Cultural

2a) Some people don't like seeing people 'ostentatiously' displaying membership of a different culture.

2b) Some people feel they don't like seeing/meeting people without being able to see their face.

They are the issues, and the answers are:

1) An Iris scan could be done even with the face covered, but a check against a passport photo would require the face to be shown.

2a) It doesn't bother me personally, but it is up to the people of this country to make a decision -- but then it should really apply to all 'alien' cultures (so much for chinese new year with men disguised as dragons).

2b) If someone is in a public role (teacher, police officer etc) then unnecessary (i.e. not for safety etc) face covering seems bad for communication. If someone is just in the street, again it doesnt' bother me, but it is for the people to decide.

You’d be assuming wrong then. People hide their id...

2010-01-29T09:55:06.696Z

You’d be assuming wrong then. People hide their identity all the time “Anonymous”, and as has already been pointed out, repeatedly, they can do it in countless ways without resorting to covering their face with any type of veil.

What’s your proposal? Shall we just ban anyone from altering their appearance? Stop them from pulling their scarves over their faces in winter? Ban hoodies, crash helmets, beards, wigs, hair dye, make up? Stop anyone from carrying luggage anywhere? Wrap everyone up in safety bubbles instead of clothing? You might want to live in a police state, but I don’t.

You’ve far more chance of being killed in a car crash or all manner of other ways than you have of being blown up by a suicide bomber.

Its not about being in a car or on a bus. . . . it...

2010-01-29T09:25:26.876Z

Its not about being in a car or on a bus. . . . its about the covering of the face! Hiding of identity.

Its the anti 'Ban the Burka' people that are making this topic ridiculous, not the idea of the ban in the first place!

Its and intended move to assist in making this a safer country!

Im assuming you will be one of the people that likes the idea of handing over cash this country doesnt have to terrorists to practically ask them to stop coming over here to blow them selves and our innocent people up?

Its these terrorists that are using their traditions, ie the Burka, as a weapon. Our soldiers are being killed by women (or even men) suicide bombers that are approaching in full Burka, we cant ban it over there! But we have that option over here!

If you mean Yassin Omar, Anonymous, he also made u...

2010-01-28T17:17:17.761Z

If you mean Yassin Omar, Anonymous, he also made use of National Express coaches and a red Nissan Sunny in his bid to escape. Should we ban those too?

lets put it as brutal as we can shal we. . . . L...

2010-01-28T16:20:25.375Z

lets put it as brutal as we can shal we. . . .

Lets see if you change your mind on the matter when the next bomb goes off, killing one of your loved ones. . . and someone responsible for organising the plot flees the country again in a burka unchallenged!

The difference is someone cant hide their face behind a dog collar or a piece of christian jewelery, try walk through an airport with a balaclava on and you will be challenged, . . .

You are right the burkha isn't in the Koran. ...

2010-01-28T14:14:43.108Z

You are right the burkha isn't in the Koran.

The same as the cassock, mitre, wimple, habit, dog collar aren't in the bible. Shall we ban those too?

By the way, all this screeching about Islam not being British ( true) It has escaped peoples attention that nor is Christianity. Another middle eastern, Abrahamic, suppression religion.

The actual indigenous ethnic religion of the British Isles is Pagan ( Asatru).

Banning items of clothing for any reason is dictatorship. Requiring someone to identify themselves for security reasons is a completely different issue. There is already in place a method for dealing with identifying women who choose to cover their face in airport/customs security areas.

Interestingly in the new piece I have published th...

2010-01-28T13:05:49.558Z

Interestingly in the new piece I have published the bizarre logic of the Brit's comes through loud and clear.

The majority want to see the Burqa banned in certain public places but another clear majority think it's wrong for Government to tell people what to wear. You couldn't make it up.

I think it will put a lot of existing politicians ...

2010-01-24T16:54:25.743Z

I think it will put a lot of existing politicians off defecting to UKIP.

Is policy setting exclusively down to the leader? Just wondering if this was an ill judged 'off the cuff' thing that went wrong?

As I see it UKIP must not *exclude* anyone who genuinely wants to restore MPs as the ultimate authority in this country - focus on including everyone who supports that - something like:-

Vote UKIP - Because this country is yours

Vote UKIP - To keep this country yours

Vote UKIP - To make this country yours again

Vote UKIP - Because the UK is Worth It

That kind of thing.

Wait... people actually take this burkha thing ser...

2010-01-24T16:25:08.511Z

Wait... people actually take this burkha thing seriously?

Guys, it's stupid. Certainly put me off voting UKIP anyway.

Whilst I also do not believe in AGW You are livin...

2010-01-24T12:13:21.782Z

Whilst I also do not believe in AGW

You are living in a fantasy world wonko. More than 50% of people do believe and using your argument that is good enough to make it right.

Banning anything ( especially items of clothing) is fascist, end of . Any political party that claims to be freedom, democracy and libertarian and the bans clothes on WHATEVER grounds is just plain lying.

Based on security issues UKIP would also ban trainers and pants on airplanes I guess.

The majority don't believe in AGW and I imagin...

2010-01-24T08:11:29.792Z

The majority don't believe in AGW and I imagine even less will once the media stop suppressing the news that the UN is investigating its own global warming scam artists.

Using your logic Wonko then you don't mind pay...

2010-01-24T00:15:46.187Z

Using your logic Wonko then you don't mind paying out all these green taxes etc for AGW. Seeing as the majority still believe in it !

UKIP has just ended it's slim chances at the GE with this policy.

Ignoring the wishes of the majority is why we'...

2010-01-23T22:59:28.337Z

Ignoring the wishes of the majority is why we're still in the European Empire.

The burkha is a security risk and a barrier to integration. If you can legislate to force people to wear certain clothes (or clothes in general, it being illegal to walk around naked) then why not legislate to stop people wearing certain clothes?

"If most people in this country don't wan...

2010-01-23T22:50:53.080Z

"If most people in this country don't want to see the burkha being worn on our streets then why should we have to see it? "

So you believe in majoritarianism? Illiberal democracy?

Government regulation of our choice in clothes sounds like what I'd expect ZanuLabour/BluLabour to be advocating.

Neil, how censored he clearly operates a moderated...

2010-01-23T09:45:23.706Z

Neil, how censored he clearly operates a moderated blog, as I do. He probably hasn't seen it yet.

Lib Dem blogger http://christopherlovell.blogspot....

2010-01-22T14:11:47.755Z

Lib Dem blogger http://christopherlovell.blogspot.com/2010/01/ukip-arent-so-liberal-now.html
put up a post saying how this ban proved UKIP illiberal.

I posted disagreeing.

He censored it. ;-)

News Night live last night Lord P, 'Public Pla...

2010-01-22T11:59:32.202Z

News Night live last night Lord P, 'Public Places'

Is it any wonder that this policy is getting ripped apart, there is no policy it is 'off the hoof'.

Asked what would be the penalty for not complying he had no idea how to respond so the presenter guided him through, leading right into saying ultimately it could lead to prison.

I repeat the Muslim Council of Britain and all other Muslim commentators do not have a problem with the veil being removed for security to reasons, or to comply with 'private' property owners rights, ie shops, pubs etc (although would they go to pubs anyway). So we cannot continue to muddy the waters.

http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/1407-ukip-...

2010-01-22T10:20:32.576Z

http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/1407-ukip-call-to-ban-burka

"UKIP's proposed policy on banning the burka in public buildings and public places . . ."

UKIP Website Letter from Lord Pearson published i...

2010-01-22T09:08:31.795Z

UKIP Website

Letter from Lord Pearson published in the times.

Quote
"Your leading article (Jan 16) warned that our proposed ban on wearing the burka in public buildings"
End Quote

Sensible comments, comments borne out of prejudice...

2010-01-21T12:42:59.683Z

Sensible comments, comments borne out of prejudice and ignorance more like.

UKIP's policy is not Public Buildings, at least that's not what Farage and Pearson said, it was 'Public Places'.

I guess Mr Halden the master UKIPer didn't hear that bit. This policy is divisive, prejudice and completely unnecessary when Muslim women and their religious leaders all say the removal of the veil in specific defined situations would be honoured.

I wonder if Mr Halden would like to campaign in the Broad Green area of Swindon and express those views, I doubt it he thinks campaigning in the town centre during lunch time on a Saturday, in Swindon town with a large immigrant population would put him at risk.

Anonymous Well said! I appreaciate the very good ...

2010-01-21T11:12:53.299Z

Anonymous

Well said! I appreaciate the very good sense you are talking, in you latest post about the burka.

At last we are getting some sensible comments on this forum.

Well Said Anonymous!

Of relevance: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...

2010-01-21T11:09:58.064Z

Of relevance:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

Its a hot topic, it wasnt so long ago that Jack Straw approached the subject, but in true fashion of the supposed three main parties, took it no further.

UKIP are only continuing their stance as a party that is going to get on with things! Instead of hint at things and take it no further!

Steve

UKIP has proposed a ban on wearing the burka in pu...

2010-01-21T10:52:53.533Z

UKIP has proposed a ban on wearing the burka in public buildings

Of all the religions, Islam is the only one whose leaders do not wish their followers to integrate into our society, and Sharia, which can alas be described as gender apartheid, holds growing sway in too many parts of our country.

So the burka is a symbol of separation, discrimination and fear.