Comments on Bloggers4UKIP: A new farce force in politics ...

UKIPs purpose should be to re-empower the people b...

2010-01-15T13:02:49.325Z

UKIPs purpose should be to re-empower the people by leaving the eu and putting a directly elected (and accountable) parliament back in charge.

Then all of the people can decide what kind of devolution we want, and expect the government (whoever they are) to implement it.

UKIP does not need to have a view on an english parliament - it just needs to make the british parliament supreme and accountable.

Sub, absolutely right and that's something the...

2010-01-13T07:04:57.010Z

Sub, absolutely right and that's something the other "British" parties could learn from - if it wasn't for whipped Scottish Liebour MPs we wouldn't have foundation hospitals or university top-up fees in England.

I'd like to say that none of the SNP MP ever v...

2010-01-13T03:31:19.900Z

I'd like to say that none of the SNP MP ever vote on English only matters in Westminster. They never have done.

Just for the record. :)

Most of us know the policy, the fact remains the o...

2010-01-10T19:52:14.730Z

Most of us know the policy, the fact remains the others wouldn't go along with it, for pretty obvious reasons.

The Barnet formula is of far more concern to the English than some appeasement of a Parliament.

It is clear that both UKIP and the English Democra...

2010-01-10T16:10:23.036Z

It is clear that both UKIP and the English Democrats both believe in having an "English Parliament."

Our only difference is how that English Parliament should be set up.

As we are so close in our beliefs it seems only sensible that both UKIP and the English Democrats should work together, and not against each other.

Under the first past the post system of voting, parties with similar views should work together so as to avoid splitting the anti-EU vote.

UKIP Website Policies Constitution UKIP Policy 200...

2010-01-10T15:58:35.347Z

UKIP Website
Policies
Constitution UKIP Policy 2009
How we are Governed Page 9

West Lothian Question
3.3.5 We propose to retain the existing national bodies – the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly, but to replace the existing nationally elected representatives with their equivalent national representatives in the Westminster Parliament, meeting, say, one week in every month in plenary, plus some committee days around Westminster.

The remaining time would be spent sitting as the UK Parliament. The United Kingdom will be rebalanced, and England treated more fairly, by the introduction of ‘English days’ involving only English MPs in Westminster, and calling this an ‘English Parliament’, but with no extra buildings or politicians.

The English Parliament would debate English-only legislation and matters.

The English Parliament would restore England to its rightful recognition alongside the United Kingdom’s other constituent nations, and help remove resentment of unfair treatment.

UKIP Website Policies Constitution UKIP Policy 200...

2010-01-10T15:55:49.470Z

UKIP Website
Policies
Constitution UKIP Policy 2009
How we are Governed Page 4

West Lothian & English Questions
We would retain national bodies but replace national representatives with Westminster MPs from that nation:

The 129 Members of the Scottish Parliament would be replaced by the 55 Scots Westminster MPs, the 60 Welsh Assembly Members replaced by the 32 Welsh Westminster MPs, with similar arrangements over time in Northern Ireland with its 18 MPs to normalise UK affairs.

To be fair to England, the 545 English Westminster MPs would meet the same week a month in Westminster for English days in an ‘English Parliament’, debating English-only legislation. MPs would divide time between national Parliaments and Westminster for devolved or Union business.

The West Lothian Question was actually coined by E...

2010-01-10T11:32:52.291Z

The West Lothian Question was actually coined by Enoch Powell when an Ulster Uninionist MP back in 1987, in respnse to the then West Lothian MP Tam Dyall.

That aside this is just an example of the divide that 'unionists of other UK countries want to perpetuate, and English Parliament that deprived the others of a right to a say on English matters would lead to a demise in the Union that is Britain and Nothern Ireland. That certainly is not UKIP policy, and I doubt it ever will be.

Martin At the moment "English Days" at ...

2010-01-10T09:18:17.449Z

Martin

At the moment "English Days" at Westminster would not satisfy the demands of the English Democrats.

But if these "English Days" could be boosted a bit, then maybe something might be agreed that could please both UKIP and the English Democrats.

There is already some cross party support for some sort English control over England.

It is my opinion that UKIP and the English Democrats should be working together, and not against each other.

These two parties have so much in common, that they should be working together.

Martin I have read some things about the English ...

2010-01-10T09:06:35.179Z

Martin

I have read some things about the English Democrats by looking at their website.

As far as I can see the only difference between the English Democrats and UKIP, is that the English Democrats want an English parliament and UKIP wants "English Days" in Westminser to discuss issues that only refer to England.

An English parliament would be a powerhouse of ideas to improve England, and this would not really happen with "English Days" at Westminster.

Anonymous There is not a lot of convincing to do ...

2010-01-10T08:56:09.983Z

Anonymous

There is not a lot of convincing to do to persuade the party that England needs some sort of English control over England.

The official line is already that there should be English days when English MPs discuss matters that only refer to England.

The Conservative have similar ideas to deal with what they call the West Lothian question.

This issue cuts across party lines and there is already some degree of agreement between all parties. that something needs to be done to deal with the West Lothian question.

Anonymous The reason for UKIP's very existanc...

2010-01-10T08:45:19.124Z

Anonymous

The reason for UKIP's very existance is to get Britain out of the European Union.

If the Conservative Party had promised a referendum on leaving, this could have achieved UKIP's objectives.

All genuine UKIP members would have been delighted had this offer been taken up, as we could have all united and campaigned for leaving the EU in a referendum.

This would have given UKIP a huge boost and made us a real force in British politics.

UKIP would have got stronger and stronger as as the referendum campaign got going.

Anonymous You are right that wonkotsane is trying...

2010-01-10T08:26:08.928Z

Anonymous

You are right that wonkotsane is trying to persuade us that an English parliament is the best way forward for Britain.

He and a number of other UKIP members have been trying to do this for some time.

The West Lothian question cuts across party lines. I think that all parties agree that there is some unfairness that Scottish MPs at Westminster can vote on issues that only affect England.

While English MPs cannot vote on many issues that only affest Scotland because this is covered by the devolved Scottish parliament.

Wonkotsane seems to be trying to convince us that ...

2010-01-09T20:53:16.922Z

Wonkotsane seems to be trying to convince us that UKIP are going to liberate England. Even if he is right in saying that a few in the grass roots have been agreeing with his stance he seems to be out of date or out of something.
First of all the new leader made an offer to the Tories to disband the Party. Some commitment! When he got turned down honest Nigel revealed that it had been a dastardly cunning plan after all.
I want to know how Wonko is going to convince the new leadership to give England a parliament.
They stitched you up by conspiring dodgy donations, used that to bankrupt you and kick out English Nigel and impose YUP---- You've guessed TWO Scotsmen who are rabid nationalists. A takeover!
Come on Wonka even you must blush at your optimism, or are you now going to belated claim that it was all a cunning plan to steal EDP votes?
Apart from the EDP party leaders are:-
Brown, Scotsman
Cameron, Scot born in London.
Glegg, Russo/Dutch parentage.
Ukip, Lords Pearson/Monckton Scots.
BNP, Welshman born in Essex and prefers to live in Wales.
You need at least some cultural, historic, genetic, ancestral attachment for your country to fight for it. Ask Salmond.

Anonymous Any sort of coalition between similar t...

2010-01-09T19:42:38.263Z

Anonymous

Any sort of coalition between similar thinking people, would have to be restricted to mainstream nonracist parties.

The broad church of views would have to be limited to people that support the main tenets of the UKIP constitution

This is getting out of the EU, and restricting immigration in a nonracist way.

The UKIP policy on the West Lothian question is to...

2010-01-09T19:23:22.211Z

The UKIP policy on the West Lothian question is to have English days at Westminster.

On the English days, issues that only affect England will be discussed and Scottish MPs are not allowed to vote.

This goes part way to solving the problem, but it would not be the powerhouse of ideas, that an English parliament would be.

For this reason it does not please everyone.

It isn't that simple. The BNP supports an Engl...

2010-01-09T19:20:09.571Z

It isn't that simple. The BNP supports an English Parliament, but do we really want them representing us in that matter?

The question of having and English parliament cuts...

2010-01-09T19:15:17.560Z

The question of having and English parliament cuts across party lines.

The Conservatives call it the West Lothian question.

This is where Scottish MPs can vote on issues that affect only England.

But because of devolution English MPs can never vote on the same issues that affect only Scotland.

This issue cuts across party lines

It's all very well UKIP and the EDP having sim...

2010-01-09T19:13:18.039Z

It's all very well UKIP and the EDP having similar policies, but the fundamental difference is in the name. With 'English' in their name, you know that a Party will put England first. But with 'UK', England isn't, and it perpetuates the tiresome situation where 'English' is so often conflated with 'British'.
That is why many EDP members wouldn't contemplate joining UKIP.

If every time there was a single issue difference ...

2010-01-09T19:06:31.072Z

If every time there was a single issue difference people left and formed their own party, there would be thousands of political parties in Britain.

We have to work in a first past the post system and to be successful you have to be a broad church.

Everyone that is anti-EU and believes in restricting immigration in a nonracist way should be in the UKIP fold.

wonkotsane I know that for some time you have bee...

2010-01-09T19:00:49.034Z

wonkotsane

I know that for some time you have been campaigning for UKIP to adopt the line of having an English parliament.

And I know that others in UKIP have also been campaigning for this change in policy.

As this is the only difference between UKIP and the English Democrats, dont you agree that the English Democrats should be inside the UKIP fold, and working as a wing of the party.

By splitting off and launching a separate party on this single issue, dont you agree that it has weakened both UKIP and the English Democrats.

Bob, when I joined the members forum devolution wa...

2010-01-09T18:52:28.341Z

Bob, when I joined the members forum devolution wasn't talked about. When I started talking about it, 99% of the responses were negative based on the misinformation put about by the anti-devolutionists. Now the majority of responses are in favour or at least agnostic. Other people are starting topics about it and countering the arguments put across by the anti-devolutionists.

As for motivation for people supporting an English Parliament - yes, a lot of it is down to the fact that the rest of the UK has devolution but England doesn't. But what about the support in the celtic nations? You know as well as I do that the Scots would declare independence if the Brits tried to take their parliament away and Stormont is one of the conditions for the IRA to stop blowing people up. Devolution is here to stay, the status quo is unsustainable and a bigger threat to the continued existence of the UK than the European Empire.

I didn't say Lord Pearson had come up with the Swiss-style referenda policy, merely that he had made it a key policy.

Membership of the Campaign for an English Parliament is increasing all the time. The English Democrats are still an electoral irrelevance but they are gaining support. It took the SNP 70 years from being founded to running Scotland. It won't take that long for England because the principle of devolution has already been established.

We can lead or we can follow. We could try opposing of course but even the Tories realised what a disaster that policy was.

wonkotsane, as you might expect I totally disagree...

2010-01-09T18:26:32.136Z

wonkotsane, as you might expect I totally disagree with both on the numbers in UKIP who disagree with your view, you were never able to get further than a handful in support during your sustained campaign. Secondly I believe the call for a English Parliament within the public is more of a protest against the devolved government the other three have. If UKIP is truly a Unionist party then having devolved assemblies is totally different to devolved Parliaments.

As for Swiss style referenda that is not a Pearsin initiative that has long been a UKIP policy and is in our Constitutional changes dpolicy published 2 years ago.

Not yet but hopefully it will be soon. Both mysel...

2010-01-09T17:41:33.573Z

Not yet but hopefully it will be soon. Both myself and many others within the party are advocating this. There is a lot of misinformation about devolution and a lot of misconceptions as a result. There are a handful of anti-devolutionists left on the UKIP members forum who cling to the same disproven myths as justification for opposing the will of the majority of the electorate but thankfully they are now very much in the minority. And with Lord Pearson setting out Swiss-style referenda as a key UKIP policy, it would be inconsistent for the party to oppose something that commands such overwhelming support amongst the electorate that it would be one of the very first questions to be put to a referendum. I am confident that UKIP will see sense and support devolution soon.

Religion is based on faith, which is the negation ...

2010-01-09T17:33:32.979Z

Religion is based on faith, which is the negation of reason. Consequently is has absolutely no place in politics.

If one takes morality as a matter of commandment, and wants to take away other people's freedoms in order to make up for one's own lack of self esteem, then one is evil, and I want nothing to do with such people.